Michael: Hey, there funnel builders, in this Interview, I’m going to be talking to Jon Benson from copypro.ai.
Now, if you don’t know who Jon is, Jon basically invented the video sales letter, and if you’ve done any of my training or bought any of my products, that I love a VSL. They’re extremely important to me.
In this interview, Jon’s going to share some critical ideas about the importance of copywriting, great copywriting, and perhaps most importantly how to sell services, especially marketing services using copywriting.
So, let’s go ahead and jump in.
Hey guys, Mike here and I am super stoked to be joined by Jon Benson. Jon, how you doing?
Jon: I’m doing good, Mike, how are you, man?
Michael: Yes., I’m very good. Thank you so much for coming on. So, before we get into it, I really want to talk about copywriting in particular especially your brand of copywriting of it’s right to call it that. Before we kinda jump into that, for those who don’t know you what’s a quick introduction?
Jon: Quick introduction. I started internet marketing in 2004. I wrote a book called Fit Over 40, which became a bestseller at that time and thrust me into the marketing and eventually the copywriting world. And in 2006, I created the video sales letter.
So, that’s my claim to fame pretty much. I’ve written a lot of top offers, of course, since then, but that’s been the thing that propelled me out of, in the fitness world and into a copywriter, which I never thought a million years I would do.
But it turns out I had some talent for it and ended up doing a lot of writing for a lot of writing in the fitness space, dating space, martial arts, self-improvement and things of that nature.
Then I created the first AI software, the first for copywriting that I’m aware of. And Sellerator, and that’s became now VSL and now it’s Copy Pro.
There’s a lot of software related copywriting products. We’re at the edge of that.
Michael: Awesome. We’ll talk about that in a bit because Copy Pro is an awesome bit of kit. Like it was an amazing clients using it as well. That’s actually how I came across you.
Miles Beckler promoted Copy Pro to his audience, and we went and checked it out.
I think I subscribed to your YouTube channel then, and that’s how we came across it.
The majority of our audience is funnel builders, marketing agencies and there’s a really funny dichotomy I’ve noticed where even as agencies and you mentioned you had the book and the fitness products and software as well, bundled into that.
What is it about agencies? And maybe you’ll disagree with me. I find that a lot of agencies really struggle with creating copy and compelling messaging for themselves, that they like doing it for their customers, especially products I have found if I can write good copy for my services, it does wonders for me.
Why do you think agencies or service providers seem to avoid writing copy or seem to struggle with that?
Jon: That’s I think copy in general is something people struggle with. What I have found for most agencies is they tend to be better marketers than copywriters.
A lot of people that started digital agencies in general are not copywriters per se. They’re more marketers and there’s a big difference between a marketer and a copywriter.
People think I’m a marketer. I’m actually, I’m okay at marketing, but much better at copywriting. There’s a distinction there as it is once said that needs to be made.
So, that’s one issue, the other issues like every other person I’ve ever met, I’m the worst at writing my own stuff.
So, occasionally I’ll write something. It took me three years to write the hybrid funnels VSL that are in webinar that does so well for copy pro.
But for three years, I was in purgatory over that, just as a little, living hell of trying to get something that converted and here I am one of the known best copywriters in the world and I couldn’t figure out how to crack that code.
But I could write webinars for other people. So, it was very frustrating.
There’s something about making yourself distinct and pulling yourself away from the avatar, away from the being too close to the forest so to say.
That super important and very necessary and agencies need to do that on a routine basis and it’s much harder to do than they think.
Michael: That’s really interesting. I think you’re bringing up a couple of good points there.
First of all, like copy in general, is hard. For those who don’t know the YouTube channel, we’ll be dropping all the links and stuff to Jon’s YouTube channel because I think today you did it on sub-headlines and I love sub-headlines as well.
I absolutely love sub-headlines. I don’t think people use them enough, but when it comes to promoting something, which I think maybe people feel is a bit boring.
We talk about accountancy and like lawyers and stuff, but agencies really struggle to define like what their business is and I think copy is an amazing way of transforming like just a service into something that becomes really desirable.
Jon: Oh, Yes. Oh, it’s huge. It’s the one thing that you can do that will immediately improve your bottom line.
There’s no guesswork. It is the fastest way to not only improve it, but to double it.
So, if you take a doubled pages more times than I can count. One of the most famous case studies of this is we doubled the revenue of a sales page by changing one word in the headline and I told that to one of my new retainer clients.
He was like, Hey man, I followed you for years. I know that you’re not lying to me, but man, if you could do anything like that, for me, I’d be shocked cause I can’t get this opt-in page over 27%, no matter how hard we try. It’s just the nature of our product, blah, blah, blah.
I said really? I changed three words in the headline and it went to 40%. Three words, that’s the only thing that changed.
Nothing else changed on the page? No colors , no, no pictures, no nothing. That’s the power of copy and nothing I know of can go from 27% to 40%.
If you can think of something, let me know. What that is shy of saying we’re going to discount our prices or whatever, but so Yes. I think people they need a tool or they need a person, or they need a team, one of the three to wrap their heads around what makes really compelling persuasive copy and that is definitely an art and a science.
Then, we’ve tried to put that art and science into entertainment, intercation, whatever you want to call it. Entertaining education on YouTube and in software for everyone else. Or not, those aren’t exactly mutually exclusive but ,Yes. So, putting that, taking the great copywriters in the world and putting their brains into software was not an easy task to do.
But whatever approach you go, whether it’s through software, like we have or through learning how to do it yourself. You definitely need to tap into there’s a whole science to it that’s very interesting and makes a huge difference to your bottom line and that’s the bottom line.
Michael: I want to talk about this a bit more. Copy pro for example. When you say it’s complex, we’ve dabbled with AI writing software. We had a funnel-building software, like looking at what you guys do.
I don’t know how many sort of databases upon databases overlap each other cause you can dip into products and then niches and then services and then things are interchangeable.
Yes. The process of it all of that kind of coming together that you guys, like you said, you squeezed out the brain. Let it copywriters into a product like that.
Jon: Yes.
Michael: What is it that as an agency, if I jump into something like copy pro, what am I going to be able to come away with that perhaps my business is missing at the moment.
Jon: There’s just no way that one person or even a team of people can be great at writing all areas. This is what I talk about a lot in all the webinars we do and people think like I’m introduced often as one of the greatest living copywriters and all this stuff and that may be true in some areas.
I certainly in some niches, but certainly not in every niche and certainly not for everything. For example, I suck at writing Facebook ads. That’s just not a thing I do a lot, so I can look at an opt-in page and go, oh, this is what needs to change, or definitely a VSL, obviously a sales letters, those things, email campaigns.
There are other people that do nothing but write ads where people that do nothing but write for example shopping cart abandonment sequences.
For example or Shopify product descriptions.
These are all areas that have different levels of expertise so what we want to do is take the best of all those areas.
For webinars, we went right to Todd Brown or Jason Fladlien though, two of the best guys in the world at webinars and for specifically, for their web sequences and made their webinars sequences through our software, worked for anyone in any niche. So, that’s kinda cool or for VSLs we went to me and Chris.
So, guys that are the best in the world at what they do, as opposed to going to one person and this is what some of our offshoot competitors have done.
They have one copywriter. Even if it’s a good copywriter, he or she cannot be a great copywriter in every area. It just doesn’t work that way.
So, what we did is something completely different and that’s what agencies needed to realize, too. You can’t have one person on your team and most agencies have one main copywriter, some bigger ones have two or three, but they’re probably not enough to get everything done.
Copy pro can give those copywriters a massive headstart to get let’s say your client needs a webinar. Okay.
I can speak firsthand about how hard it is to write a webinar. Now it’s really weird I’ve written multiple, eight-figure webinars. We’re talking to some really high-level stuff.
I can tell you the process that they go into that I’m about to write one tomorrow. So, it’s Yes., if there’s so much that goes into that, but we have a webinar script in copy pro that has made more people, more money probably than any other template in there.
We have testimonials to this effect because that script was written by myself, Mike, Russell and Jason.
Michael: Wow.
Jon: Four of the best guys in the world combined together and said, okay, then when I call it the monster, it’s Frankenstein’s monster only really works.
This time it doesn’t go up and villages but Yes. so there’s just no way that you’re going to be able to do that or get Ryan Deiss, for example, to get digital marketers followup sequences, and their home machine campaign.
I mean that at your fingertips is invaluable. Then even if you like in our state and our stuff, you don’t have to rewrite it. It comes out almost perfect every single time.
That’s the difference in us and everyone else because, but it takes more to set it up. It takes a little bit more of it.
But even if it came out 50% rigth and gave you the ideas that is such a massive step in the right direction. So, that’s where I think agencies can use this because you’re having to create fresh material for every single client.
In reality, the clients wouldn’t care if you use the same exact, let’s say it’s a webinar, registration sequence. But when I go to the best guys in the world and get ideas and then fuse those ideas with your idea, so that it comes up completely fresh. That’s what I think the biggest advantage to having the tool is for an agency.
Michael: That’s really interesting because I think it’s one of the FAQ’s you’ve got on your site and I get this a lot based around sort of my training that I give, I say, look here are templates. Let’s take the guesswork out of it. Let’s take what the best in the world have done.
I think marketers have a habit of kind of combining over-complicating, but they also overvalue novelty and they think they’ve got to come up with a brand new, fresh version of something every single time.
You’re killing yourself here. Let’s take some stuff that works. We can tweak it later, convert it from 27 to 40%, as you said, so casually with three words, but with the value of templates in not just the efficiency of getting a business up and running, but getting anything up and running, it seems crazy to me that people ignore what people have got out there already to be able to use and pick up and start working with.
Jon: Yes. That’s so true and then what we do in copy pro is we take they’re called dynamic blueprint so that the moment that you use them, let’s say that you have a weight loss product, and I have a weight loss product and you generate and you pull the same niche like you use are the niche that we wrote for it.
You don’t write any copy yourself basically, and you pull the same exact niche and we put, we select the same exact template. I’m going to get a different version of that template than you are.
Michael: Yes.
Jon: The software does that. Yes., and then you can edit it. So we encourage people that we encourage someone to say, add your own stuff.
That’s so much better than saying, taking a template you find on the internet or something like, oh, here’s a sequence that works for me. You have no idea if it did or not.
Then you’re still having to fill in all the words and you can’t reuse them. It’s just an arcane way of going about it.
We decided to take it a little bit different strategy.
Michael: Do you think that, and again, this is something that my guys really struggled with. The concept of VSLs have done magic for me. Like literally I would argue that they allowed me to take six months off this year, basically because they did so much of the heavy lifting.
Jon: Awesome.
Michael: Of both sales and lead generation and maybe I’ll talk about that at some point. But again, as an agency, someone who delivers work face-to-face does the done for you model, do you still think that VSLs and sales letters and sales pages are appropriate for that type of business.
Jon: Of course. Yes. It’s all human psychology changes. There’s still work right now.
Now, how those VSLs are delivered, my buddy Craig Clemens who owns one of the owners of Golden Hippo has written all the Gundry letters. Just a workhorse of a guy.
He and I couldn’t be more different in how we approach VSLs, but he’s had a nine-figure success with him and his brother just are frigging geniuses of this stuff.
He takes four months to write a VSL where I take four minutes.
It’s completely different strategies but what was cool is that they took VSL formula that I used for years and of course taught and they were clients of mine and all that stuff, and then took it and said, okay, we’re going to do slightly different, added a little bit to their formula, got the formula down and then started adding stuff to the first 10 minutes of the VSL tour.
It’s there’s animation. There’s live video. But then they realize, oh Jon was probably right about the words on the screen being important.
So, all the words are still on the screen. It’s almost like closed captioning and that became the thing. Now that’s become the way to deliver it and there will be something else down the line that will become the thing.
But the thing underneath it, the mechanism underneath it is still the same freaking thing. It’s still words on a page and a voice, right?
The same thing is true of a sales letter. It’s still words on a page and not a voice in this case but there’s ways of breaking up sales pages.
We’ve looked at so many different ways of delivering sales pages, delivering, the page broken up over 10 pages, or there’s just ways that the people will come up with to make this better over time.
But the psychology of the mechanism of words now that doesn’t change it, that will never change. And that’s why copywriting is so freaking important because I don’t care what the medium changes to. Let’s say that you said, where I’m getting all my businesses’ Tiktok videos and I can’t think of anyone that this is true for.
The only thing I do is go on and I do these bizarre facial expressions and then say at the end, say, buy X, over here at Y.
That’s still a call to action. Okay. There’s still no way you can get around that.
Unless you’re like that, and you can do something that’s silly, but even let’s say that you’re someone that needs to talk about like a script or talk about, Hey, here’s what I’m doing right now to lose weight. I decided I would do this and I decided to make a system.
You need the copy to do that. Either you’re speaking off the top of your head or you’ve written it ahead of time and you’re reading a note. My point is that, no matter how you slice the pie, you’re still gonna need to get copy.
It’s still a thing and it will always be a thing.
Michael: I see this so much, especially with the the influencer model. I have so many influencers approaching our team, saying we’ve got an audience of a hundred thousand, 250,000, a million people, and we just cannot seem to convert anyone.
We can’t seem to get anyone to buy and we’ll scroll through their feed, that posts and whatever.
I’m like, you haven’t got like a single call to action. I’m like, no wonder you’re struggling and I’m like, let’s not overcomplicate it, man.
In a funny way, they’re quite good at writing copy because the post itself has to be like, engaging, it has to tell a story and it has to give something back to them, but I’m like, you’re not just rounding off some of these really basic systems that will almost automatically convert a reader into a buyer.
It seems crazy to me that people miss the real basics.
Jon: They do. There’s an upcoming video I have on coming up on my channel on the ethics of selling and I think people are infected with a mind virus that basically tells them that it’s wrong to be too salesy when I make the case a rather convincing leave I do say so myself, that it’s unethical, not to do it.
It’s unethical not to sell hard. There are two caveats.
Number one, if you believe in your product and service like you truly believe in it and if you want to actually help people.
If those two if’s exist, then it’s unethical. Because you’re actually ripping people off because of your own moral perpetuity, your own moral standards, that are not actually based on logic. They’re based on emotion.
I’ll walk people through that, but once they break that bond in their head, break the chains in their head, they’re holding them down to not selling as hard as they can.
I’m not talking about going from having an honest conversation with somebody about a product or service, and they’re going to the super car salesman kind of thing.
Like using the words and persuasion and an avatar language that these people need to hear and understand, calls to action that are strong, they’re definitive, that this is going to help.
If you don’t do that, you’re ripping people off because they need that to take action. You have to cut through the noise in their brain, and there’s a lot of it.
If you don’t, if you’re not willing to cut through the noise in the brain, you’re not going to get the people to buy the product. And therefore you’re not helping people.
If the argument I’m giving you the reader’s digest version of this. But if the argument is well, then if that’s the argument, why not to give it away for free, then you’re betraying a million years of human evolution where we don’t do that. We barter everything.
Everything comes with an investment and the things that you invest in me with money, I invest in you with time, product. This is a very equitable trade and capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than anything.
If you can put these two ideologies together, you have something that very potent and very helpful to help people break through the achiness of selling, which is not easy at all.
Michael: I want to go down this a little bit if you don’t mind, because this is a subject that’s very close to my heart because sales has been good to me. It has allowed me to buy a house and provide, and I think if I’m able to help someone stop charging two and a half thousand dollars and start charging $25,000 for the same product.
I think I’ve helped that person, but I also think that customer who is now providing, they’re not providing $2,500 worth of value, they’re providing $25,000 worth of value to their clients. I think it consistently goes up and up.
Why is it that people, not particularly digital agencies, but digital creatives, people who are very good at the craft side. Why do they have this inherent roadblock towards saying someone, this is the problem I solve. This is the benefit you’re going to get and I can help you get there. You need to give me something in return.
Why does that exist?
Jon: Yes., it exists. I don’t think I talk about where the false morality seeped in like how that crept into the human psyche, but I can tell you what, where I think it creeps in it.
I think it creeps in from hearing things as a child, like the love of money is the root of all evil. But you don’t hear the whole passage. You hear things like money is the root of all evil.
Actually, the biblical phrase is the love of money and the love is like the worship of money which is probably true. That is probably is one of the roots of all evil, but so we get this, money doesn’t grow on trees.
Money is trees like where do you think paper comes from? That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard, but all these really dumb things that we say about money that just infiltrate our brains.
Then we have this notion of selling when we hear the word selling, that is like a trigger word for so many people psychologically speaking.
In that, the issue is that we love to buy things, but we don’t want to be sold. Partly that, how do we make that gap go away and the thing is the reason we like to buy things is because we actually do want to be sold.
We just want to feel like we made the decision rather than it was than we were coursed into decision.
What I talk about is ethical persuasion, where you were not coursing, you were compelling. There’s a big difference.
If I teach you to compel someone to say, doesn’t this align with your core values and they go, Yes., it really does so they get the feeling and the logic both together, you have to have both, and then they buy the product and they go, oh, this totally makes sense for me as a human being.
There you go. You’ve just made everyone in the room is happy now. Just to understand how to do that and to understand that’s what you have to do if you want to impact the most amount of people possible, that’s gonna change the needle in a major way as opposed to saying, Hey, you just didn’t need to learn how to write better copy because you can make more money.
That’s not enough of a reason for some people. They need the bigger reason and I’m telling you that the bigger reason is, I’ll give you an example of something you just said five minutes ago, or 10 minutes ago, you said VSLs have been very good to you and allowed you to cap the year off.
So, here’s one person who I didn’t meet face-to-face until the day that took a tool that I created. Okay. I create a VSL and he said, what did you do something with your family during those six months?
Michael: I actually had a health provider. I was diagnosed with cancer so all of that time, it like came out of nowhere and I called up my team and said, even if I want to work, I can’t and I’ve still got a bit of therapy to go.
I’m happy to say that I’m absolutely on the way out. I would argue that it was all spent with family that whole six months.
Jon: Okay. I’m going to go, without being hyperbolic. In a way, using VSLs may have saved your life.
Michael: In terms of stress and being able to pay for the stuff that I needed, I legitimately am not blowing smoke, VSLs we can see the data essentially allowed me to go. I don’t need to touch the business for at least six months and was able to take that time off.
Jon: Okay. If I would have sold now VSL or whatever iteration of that is now VSL, if I would have sold that in a timid sheepish way, I might’ve not ever had Mike as a customer and Mike may be dead.
No, we didn’t plan this conversation, but so this is the trip that I take people down whenever I talk to them about how to close someone.
I don’t say, listen, the reason why you didn’t want to buy this today is because you’ll die otherwise. That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is that I’ll walk people through that, there’s a video on my YouTube channel that talks about magnifying the problem.
How I can take someone’s problem that they think the problem is they need to lose 20 pounds and by the end of that journey, the problem is, oh my God, I’m a terrible parent without any lying at all, that’s super important.
I can do the same thing for somebody to tell them here’s a great reason right in front of us. Mike is here today because Jon knows how to sell and that’s it’s really basically.
But I love to hear the story when you told me that I thought six months off. Oh, you just went on vacation.
I was going to go down the rabbit hole of oh my gosh, maybe I added something to the life of your family or memories that you wouldn’t have had otherwise.
That’s how I look at everything I’m doing. Like when I’m looking at the software I’m creating in the freaking overboard that we go with it it’s ridiculous.
Most people don’t go the distance that we’re going. When you see when it was coming up, you’ll see what I’m talking about.
But I just keep reminding myself. It’s that thing is going to eventually pay off in major ways and there are actually thousands of stories like Mike out there that maybe they’re not life and death stories, but they’re stories of you allowed me to pay off my kid’s college fund or college bills were there and then pay the house off.
Whatever the case may be. You need to realize that those experiences are going to be there, but they’re going to be much fewer and further between if you don’t sell and sell with gusto, with boldness and sell with honesty.
All those things are super important. You can do all of that with ethical persuasion.
Michael: Yes. It’s such a funny like mindset that people have, because in my opinion, if I’m trying to sell something it’s my prerogative to get that into your hands cause I know it’s going to help. I know it’s going to change your life, et cetera.
There’s this funny sort of roadblocks people have and I’ve I asked my students. What’s some of the stories that you guys have, what you guys have got and they talk about this stuff like, oh, they were able to retire. They didn’t have to sell their house. All these things that they’ve done for their customers.
I’m like, why isn’t this in your storytelling and your copy and your content. Like you are literally changing lives.
Jon: Yes.
Michael: There’s the most powerful, compelling sales thing you need and realistically, not even having to try that hard to try and pull these stories together.
Jon: Yes., I think there’s this weird again, it is just, you’ve heard of the term false modesty.
This is false morality. But it comes from a good place. It comes from a place of I don’t want to be braggadocious. I don’t want to be one of those overly hypey people. I don’t want to promise things that I can’t fulfill and all that stuff.
Fine. None of that stuff I want you to do either. I just want you to tell the freaking truth. This is one of my quotes on it’s basic. I say it and a lot of my videos, you never have to lie when you write copy, you just have to be brave enough to tell the truth.
Most people are not brave enough to tell the whole truth and it’s because that’s your issue. That’s not some set-in-stone moral fabric of the universe issue. That is your issue.
If you’re not willing to tell the truth and telling the truth, in this case, is I could literally say on a video, on a VSL, on a webinar, I can say, listen, I’ve got stories from everyone from this guy paid off his kid’s college loans to another guy said, look, I wouldn’t have even, I got diagnosed with cancer.
I was able to take six months off and heal myself. I’m telling the truth.
Yes. Yes. And so I’m like, if you can’t if you can’t get yourself to tell the truth about your product or service, then you’ve got a problem. It sounds silly. It sounds really obvious and trite, but the key to selling with boldness and selling the way I’m talking about is to be brave enough to tell the entire truth.
Michael: I want to wrap this up and be respectful of your time. It’s two things I already want to touch on quickly. We’re seeing as we’re in the vein of health at the most. Yes., you’ve obviously got the books and you have that fit over 40.
The fascinating part that you talk about there is how copy ultimately is at the root of the majority of content. Certainly in the stories that we tell.
I love that people try to over-complicate this and really writing isn’t going anywhere and I often tell people like, look, books are as simple as possible.
They just copy is literally just the words on the page and they still captivate you enough to get you to go all the way through to the end.
Could you talk a little bit about how people perhaps try to over-complicate or what to be aware of when you have written that copy.
I have found that my designers in the past have often tried to over-design a sales page and try to jazz it up and I’m like, we actually need less of this.
I don’t know if that’s something that you’ve seen or maybe you’ll go do something different.
Yes., no, ugly VSL has got their name for a reason, but Yes. they work yet. Sales pages, too.
Jon: Overthinking things, analysis, paralysis, whatever you want to call it, that’s very common in writing.
It comes from when somebody is trying to write from the ego and not write from what’s beyond and behind the ego and to get out of your own way is definitely part of the plan here.
You get out of your own way by, and this can sound little trippy, you allow yourself to become the Nietzschean superhero the Uber benches is neat you call it the idealized version of your avatar. Not of yourself, but of your avatar.
You’re writing from the perspective of being the idealized version of your avatar without any of the neuroses, without any of the baggage, if you were literally in a self-actualization state, as your avatar, looking back and writing to your same self so you have this feeling of empathy and understanding.
Of course, I know what it was like to be. I am you. I know what it was like to be, and you’re writing from this perspective and when you were in that zone, things just flow. Then you’re tapped into a flow state that, that you can’t explain.
I’m literally riding through almost taking dictation through somebody else’s words, but the words are obviously coming from myself, I’m not doing anything mystical or channeling or anything like that. I’m just, I’ve got my, so much of a knowledge of who my avatar really is and who I’m wanting to connect with.
I’m writing as if I am on the other side of that and oftentimes I am, if if I’m writing in the weight loss space, I can literally be that person and be on the other side of that because I was obese and went from obesity to fitness model.
That’s quite a gap but having a heart attack at 38, those are massive gaps, right?
I can write from that very easily. But if I’m having to write it into a new space and I don’t know them, I have to become my avatar. It’s a little bit of acting a little bit of an acting gig, and the better you are at that, the more you can just free, it’s almost stream of consciousness kind of stuff.
You can write things that you’d never would have thought that you would write before.
Michael: That’s such an interesting point as well. Again, to them, perhaps the majority of the public is about sales is very selfish and I’m like, it’s not, you have to, as you’ve said that really interestingly, you’ve got to become these other people and truly empathize with where they are and what they want to become and the status that they want to achieve in order to look back.
That’s like the height of servitude. I think you can obtain it.
Jon: It really is. Especially if you’re willing to feel that yourself and the more that you can feel it yourself the better and if you’re writing from the position again of the actualized idealized version of your avatar, but who’s writing back to themselves, like almost like writing a love letter back in time almost.
You wouldn’t use those words. Although I use those words once before, which was interesting, but it was for a very Wu offer. But so it was kinda cool. But that’s the idea and you will innately, with more empathy, with more validation of their pain, because you’re talking to yourself in a sense.
You’ll also write with absolute confidence and boldness that this is absolutely the decision that you need to take. There’s not even an option because I’m over here and I got over here by doing exactly this thing right here.
Yes., that’s one of my coolest mind tricks to play for sure. To get you out of that zone of trying to write mechanically.
Mechanical writing is you can see it a mile away. It always, it sounds like it’s just, I call it blah, blah, ginger copy.
Michael: Jon. I’m so glad we went down that pathway cause that’s as I mentioned, a kind of close to my heart.
I wanna wrap it up here and thank you, guys, if you want to have to sellyourservice.co.uk/copypro, that’ll explain a little bit more.
Jon, where can people find you? How can people find out more both sides of the business. All three now cause you’ve got the YouTube channel as well.
Jon: The place I’d like to send everybody’s just go to jonbenson.com/youtube. The most common comment I get is, this is more valuable than courses I pay for.
I want to make sure that continues. We put a lot of time and effort into that and the reason why is I wanted to create a legacy. Something of a legacy way that would live beyond me, but also I’ve decided I’m going to create a tribe, a Legion and the fact I actually have copylegion.com.
I want to create a Legion of Legionnaires without the disease. Legionnaire’s Mouseketeers, right.
But that’s a big desire. It is to have a massive army of people that are really into the same things.
Again, creating a tribe is very cool. So, go there https://www.jonbenson.com/ that’s Jon, by the way, https://www.jonbenson.com/ and for social, YouTube. And now VSL is the video sales letters software copypro.ai.
Michael: Fantastic. Guys, we’ll have the links down below in the meantime, Jon, thank you so much for coming on, having a chat with us.
I massively appreciate it.
Jon: Thank you, Mike. It’s been my pleasure.
Michael: Thanks, man.
I don’t know if you could tell, but I was a little bit nervous when I was speaking to Jon, I have bought a ton of his products and books and trainings and software.
Head over to copypro.ai or better yet head over to sellyourservice.co.uk/copypro if you want to chuck an affiliate payment, my way.
It really is a killer piece of software at whereas we’re going to be doing some more training on it later down the line. The reality is Jon has understood that copy needs to have a wider approach to the market and it doesn’t require you to be an outstanding expert copywriter in order to get great copywriting results.
Let’s go ahead and check out his YouTube channel as well.
In the meantime, I had an absolute blast talking to Jon. I love that we talked about stuff like the morality of sales and my journey and his journey coming from a health and fitness background.
I absolutely loved it. Go ahead and subscribe to his stuff.
In the meantime, guys, make sure to check out, sellyourservice.co.uk/copypro. I’ll make sure to put the link down below for that as well.
